#106 - Why Smart, Creative People Avoid Coaching — and Why They Shouldn’t

I’ve noticed that many smart, creative people avoid coaching because they think it’s only for people who are lost, unsure or corporate CEO's. In this episode of Pattern Shift, I challenge that idea. I share my own stories as both a coach and a client, from working with ADHD and lifestyle coaches on my weightloss journey to helping my clients rediscover joy in their creative work.

With humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of Dutch pragmatism, I explain how coaching differs from consulting, mentoring, and therapy—and why it’s such a powerful way to find clarity when you’re ready to grow. I also talk about how our cultural tendency to “doe maar normaal” can make asking for support feel uncomfortable, even when it’s exactly what we need.

If you’ve ever thought coaching wasn’t “for you,” this episode might shift your perspective.

 You know me as a guide, mentor and teacher, but I've also set off on a new adventure, coaching. Coaching gets a bad rep sometimes, but when it's done right, it can be really transformational. As part of my coaching education, I'll soon need to do real coaching sessions. And it could be a really great opportunity for you to experience it at no or low cost. If you've ever been curious about working with me in this way, now's the time. Just send me an email: info@ja-wol.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Why YouTube
• 0:55 Tech Glitch And Mindset Reset
• 2:37 What Coaching Is And Isn’t
• 5:23 Client Story: From Content To Creation
• 8:45 My Coaching Team And Lessons Learned
• 14:21 Training With Wayfinder And Finding Tools
• 17:22 The Dutch View On Coaching
• 19:43 Coaching vs Consulting, Mentoring, Teaching, Therapy
• 24:09 Restoring vs Enhancing Function
• 26:15 Present And Future Focus In Coaching
• 27:52 Who I Coach And How We Work
• 31:05 Accreditation, Ethics, And Accessibility
• 33:08 Invitation, Rates, And Free Session
• 34:10 Closing And Next Time

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey and welcome to Patent Shift. I'm Saskia, creative life and business coach for fiber-loving makers, teachers, designers, shop owners, and all-around creative. I help you wayfind your next step, organize your business to fit your life, and launch ideas with joyful action. Together we'll untangle the tricky bits like branding, marketing and sales, and build something sustainable, skillful, and truly you. Hello and welcome to Pat and Shift. It's the first edition that is actually also on YouTube. So it's audio and video. And if you want to see this support pickle that is sitting on my microphone, then hop on over to YouTube and have a little bit of a view and see if you would like to follow the podcast over on YouTube or do just the audio. I just wanted to make it accessible for more people and find more people, honestly. That's why I'm doing this. I have just recorded almost the whole podcast and it didn't load. So that is something that can happen. And it has to do with my computer and how old it is and me just trying to use good tools that are good enough to do all of this. I have a beautiful laptop over there, but this is the best setup for my podcast, and I am so grateful that I am not a starter, that I'm not just doing this. So that I already know that this shit happens, and that I know that it doesn't help me one bit to get frustrated or flustered or overwhelmed. All I need to do is take a breath, take a sip of water, and start again. It's the best way out is through, which has a completely different meaning since I started watching Waywards. If you've seen that series, it's about this kind of school that helps kids in trouble become better versions of themselves. And I think it's a little bit of a critique on the self-help and the guru type of people that are out there. And that's actually what I wanted to talk about today. I'm going to talk about coaching and the beliefs that are currently there around what coaching is and what coaches do. And it's very interesting because I just came up with this thought about wayward. And is it wayward? Yeah, I think it's wayward. And I'm doing wayfinding, which is hilarious, but also kind of great that there's this comparison and that I came up with it after I did record the episode that kind of just I don't know, it went into the void. I don't know where it is, it's gone. So there's always a good thing about starting anew, and this was this was that. So let's get into it. So I've noticed this thing that happens when I tell people that I am now a coach. I call myself a creative life and business coach because that's what I do, and you can kind of feel people pausing and oh, interesting. And I tend to want to explain myself and then over-explain myself, and I'm not helping anyone with that. So I thought it was time to do a podcast episode about what coaching is, what it can be, and what it is not, and for whom it is, and all of that. So let's go and start there. So, what it is not, it is not a fallback career. It is a framework for growth for anyone at any stage, and we're gonna unpack that. So there's this myth where people think coaching is for people who either have it all figured out or have totally lost it. And it's not about those extremes. It's actually most of coaching is somewhere in the middle, but it could be at those extremes. It can you can definitely get coaching when you are floating along and everything is great. You can still get coaching and it can still really support and help you. And when you're in a deep crisis, you can still get coaching and it can really still support you. Most people get coached in the middle somewhere. So the reality of the coaching is those middle spaces where you're navigating change or growth or uncertainty. And I was just want to give you an example of one of my clients, with permission, of course, and of myself. Carmen, who's one of my clients, said the following about coaching. My most valuable takeaway from our sessions has been that I can build my business however I want to. Even if I have built up different platforms, I can let them go if they don't serve me anymore. So this is Carmen, and she's already made a name for herself in the creative field. She is she was feeling overwhelmed with all the different platforms doing her marketing, and it was just a lot. She had turned into a content creator versus a designer and was spending most of her time creating content and kind of in the midst of all of that, I want to say forgot, but she didn't forget, didn't have enough time or didn't spend enough time creating and finding that joyful action that really was the core of why she started doing this. So coaching helped her figure that out and bring back the balance. And however logical that might seem from a distance, you probably recognize that sometimes you're so in the middle of something that you really, from your perspective, you just don't see how you how you can get out of it, or you're just going through the same cycle over and over again. You try something out, something doesn't work, then you go full into it, and then you try something new out, it doesn't work, then you go full into another thing, and you know, the cycles that happen, and it can be critical at some points of some people's journeys. So sometimes it's critical to kind of cut through it, pause, bring some space and some reflection so that you can together with your coach figure out where to go next. I have been coached by Kim Witten and also by and also by Doga, who is an ADHD coach. I have been coached by Vicky, who is a lifestyle coach, so then not a life coach, but a lifestyle coach. That has something to do with my weight loss. So I've had coaching for my business, for my neurodivergency, and for weight loss. And these people have been really important in going through change, navigating change. They have not been therapists, which I will get into later, the difference between all of that. It was at first, I just I started building. I'm such a starter. I just, I just go and I make things. And as I do things, I tweak and I think, hmm, this isn't really working. I think people need this. Let me ask them, do they actually need this? Yes, they do. Wait, why aren't they buying it? Let me ask them. And so that's kind of how I do things. I tweak as I go, and that works for me a lot of the time, but I also had bigger questions and was struggling with some of it. And that's where Kim Whitten, who was helping me with my business at the time, that's where she came in and provided some space for me to think. She also had really cool tools that helped me clarify my thoughts. Basically, sh like to stay in theme and use a meth metaphor that lots of you will understand. I was a skein and she was the ball winder and turned the skein into a ball that I can actually use to knit something with. So if you let's stick with the skein metaphor, I'm feeling this is going places. This can really go somewhere. Because I wasn't a knotted tangled mess. I was a skein. I had the thoughts and the ideas, and it was all it was there, but it needed to be turned into something that was more aligned, more practical, and more ready for the next step, aka knitting. So yeah, that was that. And then of course I have my lifestyle coach, and she just basically working with me, and and she doesn't really know it, but she's also in a way an ADHD coach because my weight loss is connected to my ADHD in so many ways. It is, I'm just figuring all of it out, and she's doing that with me. So we're working together to see what is actually helping and what's not helping. And what's a practical example is that I have a hard time eating in the morning, but I have to eat something. So, what is something I can eat when I'm feeling really tired, not able to process much? Then it's just a cracker with cheese and it's okay. And then when I feel more energetic, I can do a more elaborate, I don't know, recipe for I don't know, oats with something or eggs. I can't eat eggs early in the morning. Anyway, I should be eating a lot of protein and I'm having a hard time because I don't like the protein products and I cannot eat six eggs every time. So she's helping me figure out what works for me. That's that. And then we have, of course, I forgot about Dan, who is my personal trainerslash physiotherapist, who is actually coaching me through movement that is aligned with losing weight and building muscle, and is also being super, super supportive in that part of my life. And who else was there? Oh my god, I have a whole team. Well, not all at the same time, but it-I mean, everybody needs support, and that's the thing. Coaches are great to give you support in the moments that you need it. Okay, I forgot about one. Oh, Doga. She was actually where I am right now. She was training to become an ADHD coach, and she needed people to practice with, and I worked with her, and that was amazingly helpful. And she was actually also at the same time modeling what it is like to be coaching while you're still learning, which is what I'm doing right now, and that was really helpful for me to have the confidence to do that because I can already help people in so many ways, as you heard with the example I just gave of Carmen. And yeah, so that's some anecdotes around coaching and how it can help. When I started this Wayfinder Life Coach training, I'm training with Marta Beck, who is amazingly brilliant, clever, and hilariously funny. I was just reading, wait, let me go back and check the title of the book. Finding your way in a Wild New World. Yes, that's it. I was just laughing out loud. I hardly do that when I read books. And this is a book that is about psychology and self-improvement, all those kinds of things. And it was really, really funny. And that is, I think that is so important that you could you can be yourself when you do this kind of work. Don't become one of those, yeah, like the marketing bros. And and with the example of the the guru from Waywards. That is, if you're human, if you're real, if you are connecting to actual things in actual life with actual people, then we can move away from all the crazy woo and a little woo. I I'm all for a little woo, but I'm also very Dutch and very practical, and we'll get into the Dutch thing next. So when I started with this Wayfinder life coach training, I thought I already knew a lot because I had been working with other coaches and I already had a lot of clarity, but a lot of extra space opened up for reflection because I was learning about the background of it, about the tools. There was a lot of awareness and I got a lot of permission to change my mind about things also because I was practicing with other students, I'm still am practicing with other student coaches. And what was really fascinating is that if I'm practicing with other student coaches, what happens is I bring a coachable problem to the table, which is not too complicated, so that we can practice techniques in a little bit more of a gentle way. But I started to see patterns with myself from the different sessions that I had, I saw patterns that have been immensely helpful in my own growth as a person with those people that are still training. And the beauty of it is that you don't even really need to know a lot of tools, but just being there and listening and asking some really good questions, that's already part of the huge part of the magic. So yeah, amazing. I love it. I'm not gonna be shy to say I'm a coach anymore. I do think this episode is necessary for some information about what it is. I definitely think it's necessary in the Netherlands, because here's the next thing. I'm gonna give you some cultural context because I think the Dutch perspective on coaching is interesting. And knowing that you are probably either Dutch or American, that's my widest audience. And if you're from somewhere else, let me know. I'd love to know where you're where you're at. Just saying that the Dutch perspective is interesting. It is still relatively young here, though it is everywhere at the moment. It seems like everyone and their sister, what's the saying? Everyone and their dog are becoming a coach. And that is really a good thing, but people don't think that's a good thing. So the Dutch culture often values practicality and self-sufficiency. Do my normal, don't do your ochre genuin. That's what we say. Do act normal, that's crazy enough. That's that's sufficient, and it can really make us feel like seeking support feels unnecessary or indulgent, like it's not necessary. You can figure it out by yourself, like don't spend money on that kind of thing. But I think it's really important that we reframe coaching as a collaborative thinking partnership, which makes a whole lot more sense. But that's a little bit, that's three words instead of one. But think about it collaborative thinking partnership makes so much sense. In a way, your friend, your mother, your neighbor could be that for you, but also no, because they're not neutral, they have little bit of little hooks inside. That sounds weird. They they're not neutral, so it can be super helpful to have a good friend listen to you, but it's even more helpful if they are neutral and they let you think and process your thoughts and turn that skein into a very nice and tidy ball. So Dutch people are not really taught to seek guidance until something is broken. But coaching is not about fixing, it's about discovering. And that is a mindset shift or a patent shift, if you will, that we really need in this creative purpose-driven work. Now, let me tell you about what coaching really is. We're talking about coaching, consulting, therapy, mentorship, and teaching. Let me explain all those terms. So, consultants have expertise in a particular industry or within a particular field, and they can give specific advice or assist with strategy. I do this work as well. I help people to find a strategy that works for them, find the tools that work for them, advise on it. They will explain what their situation is, and I will say, listen, this is gonna help you. This is gonna be really the logical thing to use in this moment or the logical strategy for you. I do that. Consulting is almost the opposite of coaching. I tell you what a good idea is, and though that's a natural state for me, I love that. Coaching is more and more feeling like this is the missing link in all of it. So going on to mentoring, mentors are responsible for understanding training, education, certification, career goals of their mentees. A mentor's role includes providing feedback, structure, and exercises for skill development and often involves a sharing of lived experience with someone who is newer to a particular field or profession. I had to read this off something. I cannot remember that. So I do mentoring as well. In our business circle membership, what I do is I offer exercises, and the thing that I really love myself is making worksheets where people can figure out things for them. I can share my own experience and what helped for me, but also all the businesses I've encountered in my almost two decades of working in this field. So my expertise is my lived experience and sharing that. That's what I do in kind of a hybrid form in the business circle. And then there's teaching. I have my course, my program, and I'm basically just teaching a step-by-step process of going from what is what are your needs and your values, and just building that business around what you need as a person, then organizing the business, and then everything that has to do with launching. So that's the marketing and all the icky things, but then translate it into a language that's not so icky. That is all teaching. That is just saying this is how it's done in the way that I do it. So it's kind of meant it like everything kind of hits each other and overlaps in different ways. So it's kind of also mentoring, but not really because it's separated from a person. So I'm just offering you this information. Now, therapy has the most recognizable overlap. And professionals in these fields, in each field, often use tools and concepts from across the aisle. So, for example, within the Wayfinder Life Coach training, we'll work with the four categories of human experience, and that is derived from concepts originally developed by Aaron Beck in cognitive behavioral therapy. And we also use ACT tools, acceptance and commitment therapy, and we work with dream analysis and the techniques that are developed by Carl Jung. So that said, it's important to be able to distinguish therapy from coaching, and there's several ways to do that. And I think the easiest way to look at it is restoring versus enhancing function. So a coach is to a therapist as a personal trainer is to a physician. Medical doctors and therapists are often trying to restore function to help an unwell person become well. A personal trainer or a coach, on the other hand, is there to enhance or optimize functioning. So in my literal example, is I'm working with my physio to make the best of the use of my foot that has a little bit of, let's not get into detail about my foot, but I have something that's not really working in the way it could be, and so we're making the best of it so that I can exercise and do my walks and hikes in a pain-free way. All right, now what's also important is partnering with the client. As a coach, you work together with the client, and of course, therapists do that as well, but the information comes more from the therapist to the client. Whereas in coaching, it kind of refers to the way that the client wants to, what the client wants to accomplish in the overall coaching engagement. The source of coaching goals and directions is always the client. And then the third part to focus on is focusing on the present and future. Coaching is present and future focused. It doesn't mean that your clients, coaching clients, don't have past or that they don't come into the conversation. They do, and there's lots of safe and brave space for that. There is definitely crying involved. I mean, definitely there is you look back, but we're focused forwards in terms of finding a way. And in therapy, there's more focus to the past and what has happened and to heal that. So that's a difference there. So now let's talk about my approach because you want to work with somebody that is clicking, that feels like it's your person. And of course, you can work with lots of different people, but it's nice if you have a little bit of extra with the person that you work with. So the people that I work with are often the best way to describe it is multi-passionate. I work with all kinds of people that are everyone's creative, but have creativity as a core of who they are and what they do, but also people that want to make a change in the world, make a change in their lives, are focused on making things better for themselves, but also for the world around them. They love to create things that are meaningful and want to do it in a way that feels good and not forced. So we're not about the hustle mentality. We're moving away from the crazy marketing bros and the you should this, you should have so many followers, and this is what you do now on YouTube or on Instagram or on TikTok. And um, although I'm now here on YouTube, it's all about making informed decisions and making conscious decisions, and that's what coaching can help you with. But so what we do with coaching is that we slow down enough to notice what's truly working for them. We find patterns, we redefine successes and make space for joy again. That's an important one. Lots, and like I said, with the example with Carmen, we kind of forget, and there's also another client that I have, but I don't have their permission, so I will not name any names, but they were also saying, wait, I'm actually not spending time on designing. And they realized that that was that is the core of what they do, and they build this whole business and this whole frame around it, but they forgot about the core. So we, as I said, we make space for the joy and what was originally the reason that you started your business. Or if you want to start a business, focus on why you want to start a business and how do you envision that in terms of when the business meets that passion and the rest of your life. So it's not about becoming someone new, it's becoming it's about coming back to who you've been all along. All right, so I hope you understand what coaching is or can be, and that there's different ways to coach as well. It's different if you're a leadership coach, if you're a football coach. The word coach is not a protected word, and that's why it was, and it still is so important for me to get an accreditation from a source that's well respected, like Wayfinder Life Coach training with Martha Beck, but also the ICF, the coaching, like the bigger organization that is trying to give coaching a little bit more structure so that when you work with a coach, you know what to expect. So there's a whole there's all kinds of ethics rules that we are we are learning about and we should implement. So that is really important for me. So I'm focusing on being that kind of a coach. I hope you understand now that coaching is not a plan B, it is actually a way forward, and it's for anyone who wants to work and live with more clarity and courage and creativity. And if you've been thinking about what's next for you, if you've been coming back to the same questions or don't even know what questions to ask to get to your next step, if it's you whether that's in your business or your craft or your life, it's probably a combination of all these things. As another client I was working with realized that they were focusing on life more than anything else in our sessions because that needed to be clear for them before they could start with the next step. So if you're ready to pause and reflect and explore that with me, I'm here and I still have space for new clients. You can find all the information on patentshift.fm, also on ya-vool.com. It's actually the same website, just a different way of getting there. You don't have to do it alone, and it's not for specific people, it's for everybody. And in terms of budget, I still offer my low rate because I haven't finished my education from December onwards. I will have finished. So I think this is a great moment. If you're curious, just if you're curious, try it out, see if it's for you, and do it at a very low rate. So you can join also my newsletter, The Yavel Journal, where you find a lot more than just coaching. It's I hope that it embodies what I'm trying to offer and share with you. That it is a holistic experience, life and having a creative business. And in the Yavel Journal, I show you all those different aspects from my life. It's really about craft, about business, about puppies, about growing flax in short snippets with pretty pictures. At least I try to give you some pretty pictures. So sign up. You can do that in the show notes. And yeah, if you're feeling that little bit of curiosity, the little bit of the gentle tug pulling and thinking, oh, I need to shift something. I need to move in another direction. I don't know where to go. Maybe this is your sign. Maybe just reach out and ask me. And we can do a free session to start off with, just for you to ask any questions that you might have after, even after this episode. And then we'll take it from there. All right. I hope you enjoyed this and I'm wishing you a wonderful, insightful, and aligned. No, yucky. I don't know. Things like journey and aligned and all these words, it's actually really complicated because I want to move away from this. I don't want to have anything to do with the wayward type guru figure. I am not anything like that. I mean that's clear, right? But what happens is we start to use this kind of vocabulary, and then it becomes icky, and then we start to realize that that's happening, and then we want to use other words, but it is what it is, right? So I shouldn't really overthink it myself. Perhaps that is one of the things that I can get myself coached on with my practice and just see what comes up. How do I use words for things? How do I even speak? Luckily, as a coach, you mainly listen. Let's hang out again next time. Bye.